SPEAKER_01 0:00

You know, Atmosphere is absolutely a master of his craft.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Yeah. And we were so impressed. Yeah. With that show. It was a great show. And then uh saw the last dinner party also this year um at Salt Shed. That was a you know, same venue we saw Atmosphere at that was another just great, great show.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Best venue I've ever been to in my life. Is Salt Shed Indoor and Salt Shed Outdoor? I haven't met the best venues. I haven't met a salt shed outdoor. You're gonna be blown away, but the indoor is the best music venue I've ever been. So we have these preconceived ideas of outdoor venues. Right. And salt shed is not that. No, okay. It's it's a it's an experience, man. It is like to check it out outdoors. Yeah. Uh shout out to Salt Shed. Uh, we're the Chicago Bocce Club. You can help us out. We're helping you out. I'm Andy Zimmerman. We're here at the Chicago Bocce Club, and we're gonna talk about bocce music and life. I'm here with my good pal Scott Whitty. How are you doing, Scott? Man, how are you? Good. Ready to play this game? Absolutely. All right. Star or logo? Star. That's logo.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

That's logo, right? That's logo. Ever seen something like that? I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take it. Not yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I intentionally started calling logo every time because the amount of people that think star happens every time. So every time I get it, it feels good. Especially on that one. It is very star-heavy. That was very cool. Uh thanks for hanging out, Scott. For sure, man. Glad to be here. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

So how long have you been playing bocce? Probably about 18 months now, maybe. I started playing in ABC League like March of 2025 or so. Okay. And at the Chop Shop.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, and you moved from Cincinnati to Chicago. You're originally from the Detroit area. Yeah, from the Detroit area, yeah. And lived in Cincinnati 10 years?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Uh longer than that. So I was there almost 20 years. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. And my wife Kaylin was there even a little bit even longer than that. So we spent a lot of time there and it was time to make a change. And Chicago was the spot for us, man. Ian, how did you get into bocce? How did you hear about it? Yeah. So, you know, being from the Detroit area, you know, I grew up, Alex Gare and I grew up four streets down from each other. Yeah. Since we were like probably about eight or nine years old. He was one of the first friends I made when I moved to the town where I grew up in. So kind of got into bocce through him, kind of learned the techniques and tactics from him. And uh so when we moved here, it was kind of a given that, you know, we'd logically joined a league. Yeah. And you didn't expect to get as hooked as I did, as fast as I did. Yeah. But uh that's how that's how I kind of got my start.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

So you started playing like, oh, it's a good place to hang out, meet some new people. Yeah. And how how quickly did you know that you were hooked to this game? Because I know I see you here enough to know that you're hooked on this game. Not from that ball. I'm still I'm still in. Go ahead and roll. Yeah. But I mean, how how quickly did this game consume you?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

I want to say for me, it was probably it was a matter of a few weeks, I think. Yeah. I was very fortunate to have some, you know, friends of of Alex's and yours that kind of took me under their wing and were really supportive early on. So yeah, it was very, very quick. Nice with the haul. Ah still me though. Yeah, so I want to say it was probably about a couple weeks, but got really into it, you know, probably about a month or so after. What was it that connected you to this game? I think the community aspect first. The community aspect first, I think the social aspect of it is kind of what drew us in and I think kept us there until we got competent enough to feel like we were contributing to our team. But I think what hooked me was the idea of at the end of the day, it's really more like, yes, your opponents are there, but the thing that I love about it is that it's it's almost a game that you can play really against yourself. Like, what are my own expectations of how good I should be doing? So even if you feel like, oh, this game didn't go so hot for our team, there's still very much that individual kind of individual aspect to it. Yeah. Which can also be good and bad, right? Because you can feel like I played great or and you know, we won the game or we lost, but that's fine because I played good, yeah, or everybody on my team played great and I just cost them the game.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

It actually took me years to realize how much of a battle against self this game is for sure. As I early in my bocce career, you know, I wasn't I wasn't necessarily quick to blame my teammates, but internally I was. And even if I had a bad game, I would rarely remember it that way. Uh so I was a slow study, but again, I didn't have a community like this where everybody kind of has tips and secrets and tricks and pointers to to get you settled in.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

But I think for me, it was like, you know, I didn't really have like time to be super self-critical because like you're starting out so you're so bad, and I was playing with players who are so much better than me. So like I was probably more critical of myself than they were. Like I felt like I just was rolling balls closed right from the start, and they were like, You're gonna suck until you get better. Yeah. Um, so that was also like a big help too, because like some of those early licks that I that you feel like you take, especially when you're like, I had a very supportive group around me that was like, dude, it's gonna, it's gonna come. Don't fight it, just keep rolling the ball.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

That is very unique, and I think that's one of the best offerings of the American botchy community is while you know they're very welcoming and warm, they don't gatekeep the sport but give you everything they have. And I think we're seeing a lot of people get better very quickly because of the amount of information you can absorb from different points of view. 100% looks like one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

No, I agree. And and you know, definitely early on, some taking some of the classes that you put on as well was like a huge help. So yeah, it's been a journey, but a very, very fun one so far.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

And do you have any goals in bocce? I know uh you're wearing your champ shirt. This is uh we give away champ shirts for people's first pin, uh the champs pin that they win for the first league that they win. I know last season you won your first league. Yeah. And while you feel like 18 months is a long time, there are people that have been waiting much longer than that. So you were that was a quick ascension. But you know, now that you've won a league, you're playing in leagues here at the Chicago Bocce Club. Yeah. Do you have any goals for bocce?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, I mean, I think so I think high level, right? I view bocce for me so far, like looking back, is like it's just been a series of moments, whether it was like the first league pin, playing in my first ABC Open, going back, playing in my first tournament, playing in my first league. So for me, it's more I think of it more as less like, yes, there are things that I want to do ultimately, like I would love to be a part of the Chicago Bocce League. Like that's definitely an ultimate goal, but that's also something that I can't control. So for me, I think I just want to the biggest goal that I have is I just want to keep grooving my game and then feel like whenever the moment comes, whatever that moment is, whether it's a CBL moment, a moment to compete in a high-end tournament, maybe go to national, something like that. I just want to be ready when the moment arrives. And feel like I feel like I played my best and contributed because I think if I take that long view, I'll end up being a lot more content versus like I feel like, oh, I have to, I have to do this by then because that can become almost defeatist because I can't control anything besides Yeah, that it ends up being a much longer goal, you know, yeah, is is setting unattainable goals.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

I always talk to people about bocce. I always talk to people about the expectations of bocce, and people get so quickly connected to this sport that they expect so much more out of themselves than what they're actually capable of. You know, and as an instructor and having having played almost 20 years now, you know, I I had a very hard road to learn all that, yeah. But I see it in people very quickly now. Yeah. And they're so hard on themselves and expect, you know, greatness, right? Where all of the best athletes in every other sport are right around 50% or less. Yeah, you know, and in this game, especially early, you know, 50% is gonna win you a lot of games. Exactly. And the people are expecting perfection, and and that's something where we're really trying to weed out of the community is this pressure that people put on themselves to be better than they're they're capable of being. For sure. And it's not a knock on their skill level, it's it's a honest assessment of where they stand and what they should expect from themselves. And I think in the end, that will be more rewarding for the individual. Do you have a highlight in your botching career?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

I can't imagine it isn't your league championship, but um, league championship is a is definitely like that's probably the most recent highlight. But I always go back to the ABC Open last year. Yeah, going to that, seeing the scale and the size of that. And I remember like I got added to a team late. I wasn't even sure that I should be there. And I went there and I did okay. Just like I didn't like I had a couple bad balls, but like I feel like I was doing my part. And that for me was like, that was the first feeling that I had where it was like maybe I belong in this sport. Like, yeah, this phase, so that for me was one, that was probably like the first big like, oh my god. Yeah, the other one that also happened right around that time was uh the team that I was on, still am Superfecta. Uh, we had an undefeated season at Cleos. Didn't win the pin, but that was also none of those moments where it was like, oh man, like we're better than a lot of people. We're doing good, we're doing okay. Yeah, yeah. The two they both happened right around end of end of summer last year. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Don't love that. Oh, ooh. You grab that? Thank you. Yes, sir. And that was something you taught me aggressive early, conservatively. So all right.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

That's kind of uh one of our bocce mottos is say the say the quiet part out loud. Yep. Put a blocker out there, not repeat it, but yeah. So I know you're a musician. Uh you play guitar. Yep. And I know that you don't do that professionally, like as a job. Right. But uh what kind of musician are you? What is what does guitar mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, so guitar is something that I've played since I was maybe 13 or 14 years old. So like 25, 26 years now. Um, I think for me, I think, you know, it just it's it's just something that's kind of always been. So I so I ask him like, what does it mean to me? It's almost two, it's just it's it's a part of who I am at this point. Sure. I almost identified myself like as a guitar player first more than anything else.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

As a guitar, so you're a guitar player who has a job on the side, right? Your full-time job is your side gig to being uh to being uh a guitarist. All right, I love that. All right, I finally hit it on camera. That's three. That's three.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

So you've been playing guitar 25 years. Yeah, I grew up. Um, my mom was a singer in bands in Detroit. Um, so I kind of grew up cool around music, always was interested in the guitar. Started, you know, picked it up when I was 13. My parents have always been super supportive of anything that I was into. So, like right away, they were like, let's get you some lessons. And uh yeah, kind of got started first, you know, just playing in my bedroom, then actually played a few gigs with my mom's band when I was like 16 like rhythm and blues stuff. Yeah, um, kind of got the kids to play on stage.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Are you a good student, or was it guitar that made you want to you know lean into lessons and improve and become a better player? I've always been a good student.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Okay. I thought that was yeah, that was also my mom was a teacher, so in addition to being a singer. So that was not always a direct correlation, yeah, but uh in your case. But I think that being so focused on developing you know guitar actually helped me figure out how to develop ibachi too, because like that idea of like focused practice also helps hugely.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, and you can remember the repetition uh and the sore fingers. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

And just and knowing that like you're not gonna see gains or like or improvement every day, but like all of a sudden something will click and you'll look back and you go, wait a minute, like how did I just do that? And then you realize like different moments have been building to whatever that sure that might be. Like, oh, I like it, I just did that, it felt so easy, but yeah, but you forgot about the hundreds of times you just four.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

We're finding uh that a lot of botchy players connect their real life experiences to you know their improvement in bacce. Yeah. You know, whether it's you know, you're an engineer who went to college and you know, solving problems, finding your path, they can directly apply that to how they learn botching. Uh we have firemen who train their bodies and reaction times to work differently and apply that kind of work ethic to the game. So uh I think it's very cool in a way it does that, you know, and I bet that's true for a lot of sports. Yeah, but the accessibility of botce is absolutely what connects it so quickly. 100%. Yep. That's ball. So what style of guitar would you say you play?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

I I don't know if if that's the right question. It's a great question. Yeah, so I mean, I think so. When I was doing it, kind of like what I would call like for paid for money. Like I played in bands and I would do that, was just like classic, like lead guitar. So we played like classic rock, blues, any kind of music you'd hear in a bar in Cincinnati. Yeah. You can probably recognize. Cover bands or cover bands. Okay, yeah, yeah. I always played lead guitar and also sang, you know, would trade off kind of vocals with a with another guy, and then um also did like just kind of solo, acoustic, singer, songwriter stuff. Again, mostly covers, pretty much, actually, I would say mostly pretty much all covers, a couple originals in bars and stuff. And that's just classic, like, you know, just chords and strumming and singing. So I like to play lead more than I like to play acoustic stuff, but so you can solo, because there's all kinds of guitar players, right? Yes. And not everyone can solo. Yeah, so that's definitely that's what I love to do when I practice at home. That's like I'll put on a backing track and I'll just like okay, I want to make something up.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Let's go. I played guitar and sang in bands for about 20 years, and I still can't do either well. But for some reason, it's one of those things that it it came okay to me. I didn't have to fight it much, which is well, you know what? Uh, unlike Boshi, I never practice. Well, that can be a part of it too. I I would only practice our own band's songs, so I was really good at playing. Actually, I wasn't really good. I was I was okay at playing our songs, I knew them. Yeah. And, you know, just bar chords, yeah, simple, basic finger picking. Uh it was just, I was just terrible, and I would never put in the practice. And, you know, the older I get, the more I see the value of practice, especially because bocci was the first thing I I really dedicated my time to. Uh, I was an excellent florist. I grew up in that, and uh, I was always, you know, creative into the arts, into color, and the texture and design and things like that. So it kind of came natural to me. But what really made me great was longevity. Yeah. Is that I it was my job. So I was forced to do it on a daily basis, where I don't really, while that was practice and I did become a master of that, it was it was by default. You know, it wasn't something that I put my mind to. So you're not seeing in the practice, but it's it's still happening. I put in the time, and that was the first time I thought, you know, I probably could have been great at a lot of things if I tried.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Was there something about the musical practice that just didn't make it made it unenjoyable for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Like in turn, or did you just you know, my mind is just too busy, yeah, and I didn't care. Um, I I have a terrible curse of not caring what anyone thinks about me. I want people to like me. Sure. And I want people to have a good time around me, you know, and I don't like when people talk shit about me. Right. But I genuinely don't care what other people think of me. And I've I I've had that since I was a child, and it means a lot about you. It's been uh a really a relief, you know, when I hear of others' struggles, but it's been a benefit in that I I live free, man. Nice ball. So as a guitarist, yeah, do you find yourself overly critical of music when it comes out? Or does that how much does that play into your appreciation for music? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

I think that's a really good question. I could go, I could talk for a while on this. Ha! I think I've softened.

unknown 15:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

I think 10, 15 years ago I was probably a little too critical. Yeah. Um I think a lot of that comes from just exposure and from like having to learn more songs, especially songs that maybe I wouldn't have had to learn, but it's like, hey, this is what's on the radio right now. Sorry, you have to sing a Taylor Swift song. Yeah. If you're not singing Taylor Swift in the bars right now, you're not gonna make money. But you gotta make it your own, dog. Your own. I think, yeah, exactly. But I think so. I think we're like, you can kind of like you can talk all you want, but when you actually have to crawl inside some of these quote unquote pop songs and actually learn them and figure out like, okay, what are they doing with the melody, it increases your respect for just the songwriting craft. And you're like, okay, like I can I might not like this, but I can't say it's bad. Yeah. Um, I think the only thing that for me nowadays for my live music that I struggle with, or what makes live music bad, is if it's too loud, and I don't mean like volume-wise on the ears. I don't care about loud music. Yeah. Loud is but if it's but if it's just loud without dynamics, if it's just we're in your face and there's no semblance of pullback, there's no semblance of I'd love to be able to hear what the bass player is doing, but I can't because loud is good when it's like dynamic. Yeah, loud. It has like a proper impact, right? Yep, when it's good, and then the and then the other thing is just even some major just lack of rhythms. If you if you lose the time, even slightly, I immediately am like uh you know that's another thing I struggled with as a musician very often was rhythm.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah. And you know, who cares? Rhythm's everything, man. Timing is everything. No, I was a front man. As long as I could hold a crowd, it didn't matter if I could sing or play or keep rhythm. Yeah. And I would address all of my inefficiencies to the public, you know, to the 15 people in the dirty bar. And uh just never bothered me. Yeah. Great ball, man. You're rolling, you're rolling really well. So have you been to any good concerts this year?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yes. So I've been to, well, I think probably the the best one I've been to this year was actually when you and I were together. Complete whim. I did I wasn't expecting to go to that. Atmosphere. The atmosphere, uh, R the Rugged Man, yeah, Sage Francis. Yeah. Uh Cool Keith was a was he the first one. Cool Keith was the opener.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

And was said G such a vibe. It really was the progression of the artist that night. And I think what Alex and I both what really moved us that night was how much of a professional slug and atmosphere have become incredible. They can hold a crowd, they can customize your experience, and you know, atmosphere is prolific, right? Yeah. So much music, you can take three years off and go back, and it's all ends up being good. Yeah. And artists like that that put out so much product, yeah, you tend to forget. Get lost. Yeah, you get lost and you forget how good you actually are. So having having for me, you know, having a several year break from seeing him live and to see how much better he is. Interesting. I it was really impressive.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

So because I'd never seen him live. I you know, obviously, I've been aware of I had never seen any of those groups live. I've been obviously aware of them, but I was just like I said, the professionalism, I was blown away from start to finish that night. I was like, from what people think in their mind a hip-hop show is to what that was was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

And uh, let me tell you from experience, I'm much older than you. And hip-hop used to be terrible. I mean, even the best artists just they just had a hard time with balancing, translating that. Yeah, and and like you said, loud. Like everything was just loud. Your face, you know, hype man overstepping on the mic, you know, and just didn't know that balance. And it's you know, Atmosphere is absolutely a master of his craft. Yeah. And we were so impressed, yeah, with that show.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

It was a great show. Uh, was that that was this year, huh? I think that was this year. Yeah. Um, I'm trying, and then uh saw the last dinner party also this year um at Salt Shed. That was a you know, same venue we saw Atmosphere. Yeah, that was another just great, great show.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Best venue I've ever been to in my life. Same is Salt Shed Indoor and Salt Shed Outdoor. So I haven't met a salt. I haven't met a salt shed outdoor. You're gonna be blown away.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

The indoor is the best music venue I've ever been.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

You know, we all again, we being away from something, yeah. You know, like how many times have a movie come into theaters and I go, eh, I can miss this. Yeah. And then a year later, I'll watch it at home and god damn it. Why did I miss that? Yeah, I can't believe I missed that in the theater. So I do the same with music where I can talk myself out of it, uh, especially the older I get. It's just so much easier to stay home. Yeah. Uh, but when you get out there, yeah, and and you know, so we have these preconceived ideas of outdoor venues. Right. And salt shed is not that. No, okay. It's it's a it's an experience, man. It is like to check it out outdoors, yeah. Uh, shout out to Salt Shed. Uh, we're the Chicago Bocce Club. You can help us out. We're helping you out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Is there an album you're really into right now or an artist? So it's funny. So the artist that I've been getting into really heavily over maybe the past year, um, band called Goose, not Geese, different band.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Goose, not geese. So wait, is Goose the jam band or is Goose the jam band?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Goose is the jam band, okay um very, very guitar forward, you know, um, especially the style of guitar that I like, you know, long solos and stuff, which I like. But the thing that I really respect and really like about them is they always seem to be building it to a point. Yeah, you're in. Yeah, yeah. They always seem to be building the song or the jam to like a point or a climax. You're like, okay, even if this is long, this is going somewhere. Yeah. And they'll also like, you know, a lot of jam bands, even nowadays, they still cover the songs you've heard a million times. Sure. Like, sure, I've yeah, I've heard Franklin's Tower played a hundred times by a hundred different bands, a hundred different ways, but they'll pull in newer stuff. Like they'll cover something by like Future Islands or um, what's that one they cover? Uh Pumped Up Kicks, they do a great cover. Yeah, and and uh are they are the custom customizing these coverings? Customizing it, but they're being very, very true to the original song. So it's very so so like I compare it to like if you like if you like pop music and you want to explore jam bands and like what that's like, they're the logical lead.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Awesome. And and just great production, great vocals. Great recommendation. You know, as a as an old punk, I'm sworn to hate jam bands exactly. Uh but I have several friends that are into goose, and I might have to check them out. I might not like them. We might not, and that's okay too, you know. You know, I had a funny revelation about in 2012, New Year's Eve, we went to see at the time a new artist, JB McPherson.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

And he played a New Year's Eve show at the now closed Abbey Pub. I'm gonna silence. And it it changed our lives because we ended up seeing him, you know, two, three times a year. Yeah. I flew down to Tulsa, Oklahoma for an overnight just to see him at the historic Cain's Ballroom. And he has, you know, had a had a really good career. I think he has four or five albums. He's evolved a lot. He had a Christmas album. We went to see his Christmas show a couple years in a row. Yeah. And one of my old punk friends, I invited to go one time and he goes, I'm not into jam bands. You're like, well. And he got me. Yeah. And just because it was 50s rock and roll, I mean, their live versions of their songs are twice as long. Right. Because they jam. Because they because they sound like and like I just I assumed jam band only meant noodling. Yeah. And you know, throughout the dancing festivals. Yeah. And guys in Congress are scanning a song. Any drawn neuro music can be a jam band if they jammed. Exactly. And so Misha and I were very into 50s rock and roll jam bands. Yeah. But we just didn't see it that way because you know everybody was doing this genre-specific thing. Yeah. So yeah, I won't discount it entirely.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

And I think what's funny too is like, and now especially like having the community aspect, one of the things that Alex and I have always connected on is music, but like it's because we we have very different tastes that like that overlap. Yeah. So like I found myself sort of like the other the other group that I'm listening to is, and you were there when I heard it for the first time in a long time, is hieroglyphics. Oh yeah. I haven't listened to them in forever. Oh and then Alex put on that album in the car a couple weeks ago, and I was like, I gotta dive back into these.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I was so close to getting a hieroglyphic statue when I was younger. And I don't think I would have regretted it to this day. Yeah, because it's it's not the strip logo, but it's very impactful. Yeah, you know, in its design. Uh and that is I I can agree that I every year forget that they exist for a while. Yeah, and yeah. I wonder why I'm not only listening to them. Absolutely. They're so good. Yeah. You know, Souls of Mischief, who is a part of hieroglyphics. Yeah. They came out of Oakland, uh, Jell the Funky Homo sapiens, Souls of Mischief, Hieroglyphics were this kind of tight circle. And I saw them at the Metro in the late 90s, and it was the first hip-hop show that was good that I had been to because they understood the performance and they all they all took turns. Yeah, they all they rotated hype man, yeah, and it was so tight. Yeah. The performance was so tight. And you know, you think of hip hop, you know, how could you not be tight? You gotta you have a track, but the performance, the tightness of the performance. Yeah, and I they were the first man that uh rep act I ever saw that I was blown away by lives. Yeah. I got a really bad habit of taking that Palino back on accident. Think you're I can't tell if you're in or not. I don't think so. But we're gonna we're gonna try and fix that. Oh no! Come on, check it. Yeah, I think it's you.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Well fine.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

We talked about bocce. We talked about music. Sorry about music. What's next? Life. It's life. Yeah. So rather than uh have you tell me your entire life story. Sure. Can I ask how old you are? 41. 41. Yeah. Great. 40s, my favorite decade so far. In your 40 years living on this rock, yeah. Hurdling through space. Is there some bit of wisdom that you're confident you understand completely that you could pass on to somebody? Like if you're if you're gonna give a stranger life advice, like what do you think you have benefited from the most, or what do you think you fully comprehend that you could pass on? Can I answer that?

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Two different ideas. You could do whatever you want. The first is is uh throw the clean up. And it's clean enough. The first is is that it's it's nice to be nice. Like, I don't, it's just it sounds so simple. I like it, but there is no better high for me than making somebody else's day. That's just period. So and that's like and that's tried, tested, and true. Yeah. Anybody who tries to argue that, it's like you're wrong. You're wrong, you're wrong. Yeah, yeah. Is it we so that's like that's an easy one. That is not that's nice. The other one that I love and that like I try to remind myself of is roll a ball. It's not my it's it's not it's not it's not mine, it's process over outcomes, and I'll explain you what I mean by that after after I roll this ball. Intriguing. But I think that, and this that's not my it's not my line or anything like that. I've something I've I feel like I read, but I feel like people underestimate the role of chance and luck in life. Yeah, so much. I agree, both good and bad, meaning good things that have happened to them, bad things that have happened to them. So like people either put a lot of blame on themselves or they feel like, oh, I did all that, or I did, or if it went well, it's like, well, that's completely me. I did all that. Yeah. And it's like maybe not. Maybe that was luck involved. But you can't ever know that, you can't quantify it, you can't ever hope to like wrap your arms fully around it. So don't focus on that. That's out of your control. Focus on what you can control, which is you know, what which is whatever it may be. Whether if it's in that moment, it's like if you're cooking dinner, focus on following the recipe. Or if you're over just cooking, focus on having fun. Yeah, that's the process. If I'm rolling a bocce ball, once it leaves my hand, I've put as much effort, now it's up to the court and up to the ball, what it's to a certain degree, what it's going to do. I've controlled everything that I can control up until that point.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

And I love that. Yeah. And I think there is an immediate and direct correlation to this game. Yeah. Because when I teach people, I give them the tools, yeah, and I say, now it is your job to do the process, right? Because your immediate results, you're probably going to take a dip after learning new things. But just like guitar, just like anything else, yeah, is the process of becoming better is up to you. Right. You know, it's internalized. So uh I that's a great combination of life advice because it's nice to be nice. It's nice to be nice. And the process, so I mean, you're you're taking full accountability for what happens around you in this space or any space.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

In any space. I mean, I feel like yeah, I mean, whether it's standing in line behind somebody at the grocery store or how you act on a court, sure. It all comes back to that same thing of like you never know what somebody else is going through. So just start out with your best self and yeah, and chances are you you're gonna have a better time regardless. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

I I like to be liked. Yeah, well, I think we like to well, I mean, I need to be liked, you know, and it's and it's not it's not need to be liked as much as I need people around me to have a good time. Sure. And anything I can do to bring joy to the people around me, absolutely. Uh, ever since I was a little boy, yeah, that was very important to me because I like laughter.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

And it's not that I wanted to be a comedian, yeah, but whether it's at my expense or whether you're laughing at me or with me, yeah. I I just like being surrounded by joy. Yeah. And so while I'm a deeply closeted, very mean person, you know, I have a mean spirit, I have a mean soul, I hate a lot of things. A lot of people ask me, how do you do it? How are you so happy all the time? Yeah. And I said, My secret is I hate everything. I I hate most things, but I don't need to bring that hate on others, right? Yeah. That being said, you know, I can be very spiteful, uh, not actively vindictive, but mentally vindictive. Yeah. And I I hold grudges, but in my opinion, those are those are accenuating circumstances or individuals who have, in my opinion, wronged me. Sure. And I I hold that. Yeah. You know, and I think I think that is a huge part of my joy. Yeah, is that I don't want anyone else to feel that way. How I how I know it feels to hate.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Well, and like you asked me, like you said, like you're like, I can't remember that instead of these like life, but I consider them to be life lessons. They're called lessons because you had to learn them. They're called lessons because I I had to look the hard way. So it's like I'm not even true to those two things either all the time, you know. But it's like that's what I always come back to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like uh that we we say uh principles.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, right? Exactly. Aggressive early, conservative late. Yep, it's not a rule, it's a principle, it's a principle, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

You might violate it, uh, might not apply in all circumstances, but it is a critical pillar of a successful body career. Exactly. Nice excellent shot. Excellent. I hope they got that. I hope they got on. It's a high-level shot right there, Scott.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

What about you, man? What are it's like what's like a back at you? What's like a a life lesson or a motto, or if you want to call it that you feel like you've gleaned from your You know, if you could believe it, I never thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Uh I figured I'd be asking all the questions. Oh, and I missed the shot as a result. You know, reverse card. You know, I think now this is a I I will go to uh a bocce term that I I teach people. And I think while I I may have never identified this as one of my life principles, uh, but as long as I can remember uh is accept results. Yeah. Right. Because I to a fault, I live in the present. I can't hardly remember yesterday from 10 years ago. Right. But I remember very specific things, not on the timeline. Yeah. Uh I can't anticipate the future. I'm a bad planner, um, very disorganized. Uh I so I'm I like I said, to a fault, I'm very present, but also back to earlier, you know, it gives me a freedom to exist, you know, exist in a conversation, yeah, uh, um, get along with people very easily, uh, people from all different walks of life I can relate to because I find what it is in them that you know I can connect to. And I I could dig uh my my brain works wildly at finding connections. You know, so for me, you know, accept results is very much about being in the present, is that a lot of bad things have happened to me. And a lot of them are very much my own fault. Sure. A lot of them, most of them. Uh a lot of them weren't my fault. Uh I was a victim of many different things, uh, whether tragic or inconvenient. Right, right. And I have a a very natural way of accepting it immediately. That's great. And that doesn't solve the problem, right? But it gives me clarity to work towards a solution. Yeah. Right. So accept results. And we say that in botchy, is that you know, try to make the right decision. Right. And no matter what happens, right, you know, understand that you made that happen. Right. Right. So accept that and move on. Because if you're dwelling about how unlucky you got or how lucky they got, right, or how you should have done something else, you can't, you can't change that. Right. Right. So accept results. Yeah. And I think that applies directly to life. I love it. And without thinking of it, I love that. Well, crap. I'm not going to be playing any better. So why don't you tack on this extra point? He's like, I don't accept that result. We'll call this a big win for Witty, Mr. Chicago. Um, buddy, thanks for hanging out. Thanks, man. I think we got deep there. We did a great time. Let's appreciate you. Yeah. Uh Scott Witty here at the Chicago Bocce Club, talking about bocce music, and life. I'm Andy Z. I had a great time, Scott. Thanks, man. Thanks a good time as well. All right.